Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The increases in the U.S. are not surprising. As someone else (I think it was OTWO) pointed out, the increase in bible studies can likely be attributed to the new policy of allowing both parents to count the family study. Previously only the "family head" could count it. [edit: as sir82 pointed out, this isn't correct--the new policy is that the other parent can count the time, not the study]

  Also, the increase in publishers and memorial attenders is not surprising and may continue for a few more years. As long as there is significant immigration to the U.S. from Latin American countries, I expect to see an increase in U.S. publishers. For whatever reason, Latinos seem to be unusually receptive to the WTS message. It's probably a combination of (1) coming from a religious background, (2) seeing the hypocrisy in that religion (usually Roman Catholicism), and (3) being an immigrant in a new country desiring to find a social network--a place to fit in.
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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I agree with DNC regarding the impact of the removal of temporal limitation of 1914. In addition to those who have actually left the org, there are many times more JWs who have "slowed down" and lost their "sense of urgency" as a result of the 1995 generation change.

  I definitely see a lot more JWs buying houses, driving late-model cars, sending kids to college than I did in the 1980s. I'm sure the GB views such "weak" JWs as dangerous. But these weak JWs aren't committing "gross sins" (yet) and they aren't apostates (yet), so the WTS can't kick them out--and probably doesn't want to kick them out. So how does the WTS deal with the increasing number of weak JWs (or as I call them "country club JWs")?

  One way to deal with this problem is to create a sense of urgency. This summer's District Convention was an effort at that. Perhaps a re-worked "generation" doctrine will be as well.
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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to twist the scriptures to get this two-generation doctrine. And how does Matthew 13 fit into it? If I recall correctly, there was a series of study articles this year (or perhaps 2008) about the parables in Matt. 13 (mustard grain, dragnet, etc.).

  I wonder if they're moving to a two-stage harvest theology. Matt. 13:30 could be interpreted to mean that the harvest has two stages: (1) the weeds are gathered in preparation for burning, and then (2) the wheat is gathered into the storehouse. (the NWT reads: "Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.")

  Perhaps they could take this two-stage idea and morph it into a two-generation theology--one generation of anointed is around for the weed-gathering phase, then the second generation is around for the wheat-gathering phase. Now, I think this is a stretch even for the WTS, but you never know.
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  148

  Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from a little bird... .

  interesting portions highlighted.

  notes from annual meeting (oct 3, 2009) .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Bro. Barr repeated twice, "Jesus Christ meant lives of the anointed who were on hand in 1914 would overlap with those whose lives of the anointed see the start of the Great Tribulation."

  Assuming this is correct, I agree with sir82 that this looks more like two generations . Any idea what sort of scriptural basis they have for this two generation idea?
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  8

  "apostates" and the internet

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure some of you have seen this, but it still makes me laugh.. .

  taken from:.

  http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  It reads like something from a sophomore English major at a mediocre liberal arts college. The run-on sentences and passive voice are a dead giveaway.
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  12

  "Abstain from blood"

  by God_Delusion in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was doing some light reading today and saw the word "abstain" within a dictionary.

  this was the definition of the word abstain;.

  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abstain.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The whole JW blood issue is a classic example of the WTS picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to take literally. Allow me to explain.

  Witnesses proudly state that they follow the Bible's clear command to COMPLETELY abstain from blood. To them, this includes completely abstaining from transfusions of whole blood or its four "major components."

  But when it comes to other Bible commands that are phrased similarly, the Witnesses are more circumspect. Take for example, the equally clear command at 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: " let the women keep silent in the congregations , for i t is not permitted for them to speak , but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says. If, then, they want to learn something, let them question their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation ." (NWT, bold font added by me).

  Here, Paul clearly commands women to keep silent in the congregation. Does the WTS teach that this means women must keep COMPLETELY silent? No. For the WTS allows women to give certain parts, demonstrations, and comments.

  So, why does the WTS take one of Paul's commands (blood) to mean COMPLETE abstinence, but another of Paul's commands (silence of women in church) to be more flexible? It's just another example of the pick-and-choose theology of the WTS.
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  91

  Is the WTS compromising its stand towards preaching? – Our kingdom Ministry 2009, Question Box…

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on page 3 the question box asks: what should you do if directed to stop preaching?.

  the answer?

  "in some instances, police have approached publishers who were sharing in some form of the ministry, informed them that they were violating the law, and directed them to stop.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  As pointed out by others, this KM breaks no new ground. It does remind us of an interesting wrinkle in the WTS position regarding "preaching."

  I think the WTS views the following two circumstances differently:

  1. A small group being told to stop preaching in a particular place at a particular time (examples: a group of JWs is told to leave an apartment building or a shopping mall); versus
  2. A government ordering all JWs in a particular country/state/city/etc. to stop preaching.

  The KM mentioned by the OP is discussing situation #1. The modern WTS doesn't want to force its followers to stand up to every rogue cop or ornery building superintendent. I think this is a result of Knorr-era efforts to make JWs appear a bit more mainstream and acceptable to the outside world. This is in stark contrast to Rutherford-era tactics of deliberately violating local ordinances in order to force courts to rule on the Witnesses' constitutional rights.

  Today, as long as the Witnesses are permitted to go somewhere else and preach, the WTS doesn't worry about #1 too much. In many parts of the US, there are large swaths of territory that are off-limits to the JW door-to-door work--particularly wealthy gated communities and certain apartment buildings.

  If the modern WTS took the Rutherford-era approach, then Witnesses would be constantly fined (and perhaps jailed) for trespassing. This would be quite an expense...and perhaps that's why the WTS doesn't press the issue in such cases...
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  17

  What Inventions Helped the JW's Recruitment Ministry

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on a thread called stupidest jw meeting answers, here was an answer by dissed:.

  i don't remember other's stupid comments, just mine.. a co asked us during his service talk about inventions that have helped us in the ministry?.

  several answers came forth, then i raised my hand and said.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Back in the day, I'd say the portable phonograph. The WT Society holds several (long-expired) patents for this technology. For example, see:

  http://www.google.com/patents?id=gVlDAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

  http://www.google.com/patents?id=gllDAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

  http://www.google.com/patents?id=ZrRbAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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  19

  What THEY think

  by sweet pea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this week's experience:.

  ex close friend (jw) friends me on facebook by mistake.

  realises and defriends me very quickly.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  To the OP:

  Not too many years ago, I felt the same way your friend does. I recall using similar words when speaking to a disfellowshipped friend--I asked him why he was choosing XYZ over being my friend.

  In hindsight, I have a hard time believing I actually felt that way. But I really did. From my perspective, I had no choice but to shun my DF'd friend. It was all his fault.

  But eventually I realized that I couldn't continue to take the cowardly approach and simply say "I have no choice." I did have a choice and I had to own up to my own actions.

  Perhaps your friend will come to a similar realization one day.
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  96

  How much apostate is in each JW ?

  by inbetween in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  recently i talked to some jw, even so called strong ones in the truth:.

  i noticed, they do not believe everything from the wts, for example:.

  one older sister, a close relative of mine, she has been pioneering for years, babtizes over 40 years ago, mentioned, that sometimes she wonders about certain teaching, but she can not say anything, because somebody would say, she speaks against jehovah himself..further she said, she remmebers 1975, and that the society tried to blame the brothers, but was clearly responsible itself... i was quit shocked to hear that from her, and i added some careful comments in the same direction.... other brothers do not agree with certain teachings, like resurrected ones will not marry, or animals will not eat each other etc.... maybe those are "minor" issues, but if you doubt one teaching of gods channel, doesnt that mean, you doubt the whole thing ?.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  To answer the OP's question...

  It depends on what you mean by "apostate." I don't think there's a JW alive who believes every single thing the WT teaches. For example, I know numerous "strong" JWs who don't believe that you have to be an active JW to survive Armageddon. Lots of Witnesses don't think there's anything wrong with birthdays...but they go along with it out of tradition and peer pressure. And anyone who thinks about the JW fulfillments of Revelation (for example, the 7 trumpet blasts being district conventions) has to know that's a bunch of bunk.

  But I wouldn't say that these JWs necessarily "have any apostate in them." In order to have some "apostate" in you, there needs to be some questioning of the Society--particularly, its status as the God's sole channel of communication. As far as I can tell, the large majority of Witnesses don't question the authority of the Society.

  Yes, there's a dichotomy present--on one hand they don't believe all the teachings, but on the other hand they don't question the Society's claim to be God's sole channel. But I think most of us have been there.